Wishbone suspension bolt on kit

[Alex]

Hi everybody,

there was this huge coil over thread on the STF and I was talking to couple of people about a wishbone setup for a B/J Standard bug. Mark Payne from PaynePrecision is interested in making a setup if there is enough interest. Attached is a rendering of the setup.

Here is the estimated cost of the setup:


ballpark price:

fabricated parts (frame & wishbones ) $550-650
shocks (coilovers) $300-skys the limit
rack and pinion $250-300
heim ends and balljoints $100
----- total $1200-up depending on shock choice

I am very interested in a setup. If you are, please let me know.
The chance is bigger for the setup being made if there are a couple of people willing to buy a setup. It will use stock balljoints and spindles. If I get more infos I will post them here.

I will talk to Mark tonight so give me some feedback. I will discuss some slight changes with him that I think will make this setup more suitable for people with painted cars. I am thinking of changing the rear frame design to accomodate the original wheel well.

Thanks,
Alex

[Alex]

Please post your feedback now.

Alex

[hot66]

looks good

I can see it bolts to the frame head where the beam would normally attach. Does the rear of the sub frame bolt to the body mount points?

Is the track going to be stock, or slightly narrowed ?

[Alex]

The track width should stay stock. Since you do not have the trailing arms of the front beam there should be plenty of room for bigger rims and still have a good turning radius.

I will ask about the body mount points but I would think so.

Alex

[Moog]

Hmmm... that looks a bit like mine....

[Moog]

and here's the rest...

[Alex]

Moog,

did you make it?
Looks very interesting. How about the steering and were does the setup mount to on the frame head?

More infos please and more pics if possible. Can you still use the stock tank?

Would you duplicate it?
Alex

[Moog]

I must confess that i didn't make it myself. It came from an old UVA kit-car - they originally based it on the VW pan, but evolved it into a tubular chassis with double wishbones up front. They went bust years ago, but this setup surfaced recently on the front of a Buggy, and though i'm in the middle of another project i bought this for when i get back on my serious project.

It's meant to be welded to the front of a tube frame chassis, so will need modding to fit my bug. I intend to cut off the frame head and weld this to the chassis (with some mods done to the frame you see)

The top cross bar interferes with the inner wings and fuel tank, so i thought i'd change it about so that the shocks are inboard and at 45° angle with some rocker levers to actuate them.

The frame you see has mounts for a steering rack, but i already have a steering rack in my bug (It's not a late 1303, its a tosion bar beam with a Renault steering rack) so i'll see what pans out.

When i get on to it i thought i'd try and copy it for a friends Turbo T4 '51 Bug, and may then do some more copies. Don't hold your breath though - it'll be a while before i get on it - i'm trying to mount hidden radiators for my daily driver 2.1 WBX bug at the moment!

[darren]

Excuse the dumb questions but:

What are the advantages of this type of setup?

How would this setup be lowered?

if ya dont ask.......

darren

[Alex]

The lowering will be done via a coil over shock. The advantage of this setup is that there is no side movement in the wishbone arms in comparrison to the front beam trailing arm setup.

Alex

[darren]

Thanks Alex

Ok if the kit was a complete bolt on ie. no fabricating required on my part i would be interested.

Would everything bar the shocks be supplied in that price?

[Alex]

Here is some additional information:

We need 10 people who are willing to buy the setup before they will actually make it. This is because of the material cost and work that needs to be put into it and also they need to get a car so that they can make sure that there will be no surprises.
A 25% deposit has to be made. This is for the frame and wishbones only. I do not know how much it would be if you want the entire setup. You can see estimates in the first post. The total of 1200$ and up would include everything.

I am not sure if this is going to fly. I know that a lot of people say they are interested but then when it comes to committing to it they back out.

Unfortunately I am running out of time......I never thought I would say this. I would love to get a setup but I only have until the end of January. That is when my body gets painted. If I could make one myself I would do it but I do not have the skills.

So let me know what you think,

Alex

[ricola]

Damn, this thread has got me thinking again!
It's perfect timing for me really as the Ghia I am building has no front end and I have just restored the pan. I would have it as a purely bolt on solution, no body mods required, although the fuel tank may require lifting on spacers. I was about to buy a new Puma beam but I could chop up the old one as a starting point....

Rich

[Stephen]

why not get a working design together and outsource its production to Australia 55c ~ $1us Thats a good 40% saving landed in the UK or US? I can have a talk to my machinest to see if he'd be interested.

[kdanie]

I like the idea of a double wishbone front suspension and don't want to bust anyones bubble but the suspension design in the picture is not optimal. There is much to designing a front suspension that will work well and for a GL I would want one that would work VERY well. I have just begun learning about suspension design and certainly do not know everything but......double wishbone suspension should have unequal length arms and they must be the correct lengths to give the correct roll center and camber gain, there are some other things to think about but it gets deep quick with things like anti-dive and scrub radius to mention a couple. I think the design pictured would probably ride better than a stock trailing arm but I'm not so sure it would handle much better and that should be the main point (in my opinion).
As I said, I am not a suspension expert, but I believe in learning all I can about things I have an interest in, the same reason I spent almost a year learning about exhaust design before I built my header.
Just my .02, take it or leave it.
ken