Engine combo... need some advice please

[super vw]

Originally Posted by fast70

The biggest without clearancing is 76mm although a 78 will fit with just minor clearancing. The stock crank is forged. To be safe, if you are comming anywhere near the HP threshold number, I would go with forged. It is cheap insurance. I have a friend who made the mistake of buying a cast crank and has had to have the crank turned down twice with only a couple thousand miles on the motor. So even though it is not that expensive to have turned:
1. It weakens the crank even farther
2. By the time the cost of the crank and cutting are added you have exceeded the cost of a forged crank.
3. Each time they need to be cut, the motor has to be torn down and new oversize bearings bought. So factor in the cost of a couple of sets of bearings.
4. You are taking unneccessary chances and stretching the rubber band to save a few bucks.

fast70

I totaly agree with you Fast70, it would be wise to invest in a strong backbone i guess. I just wasent to sure on the cast VS forged debate. but it makes sence to use the better product.
So spent a few hours looking around for parts, and there prices. i came up with a CB performance chromolly forged crank, its $189 bucks :S but its the cheapest i could find from a good name. it seams to have counter weight on it... but does not list that it is (well non of CB cranks say they are... so they all must be c/w considering they have counter weights in the pics :P)

For the full flow i looked at the CB "Maxi-5" oil pump. it has a Full flow outlet on its cover. After geting the pump with outlet, and the remote filter adaptor... what else is needed to complete the system (like what hoses, fittings work, and are not expensive)

Thanks!
Jonathan

[fast70]

I was told that CB Performance was going to offer either a 74mm or 76mm for the cost of the 69mm. I don't know if the website has been updated yet. This is what I was told by someone who has been in contact with them.

CB's cranks are counterweighted. They are really nice. I am using a 82mm super race crank and the 5.5in Super race rods. It looks solid with those H-beams on there.

Super VW, don't forget the old saying, no replacement for displacement. Don't be afraid to get a crank larger than 69mm. Clearancing is not difficult at all, just take your time. For just a little more money your fun can be increased many times over.

Just my 2 cents,
fast70

[Eurolook71]

I agree totally with fast70...

I'n my opinion, the ultimate street setup would be a 78 crank with 90.5B pistons. 2007cc


That piled with some dual 40idfs, and a quality merged exhaust, you have and great RELIABLE type 1 motor.


And then there's they Type 4 motor.....

[super vw]

Originally Posted by fast70

I was told that CB Performance was going to offer either a 74mm or 76mm for the cost of the 69mm. I don't know if the website has been updated yet. This is what I was told by someone who has been in contact with them.

CB's cranks are counterweighted. They are really nice. I am using a 82mm super race crank and the 5.5in Super race rods. It looks solid with those H-beams on there.

Super VW, don't forget the old saying, no replacement for displacement. Don't be afraid to get a crank larger than 69mm. Clearancing is not difficult at all, just take your time. For just a little more money your fun can be increased many times over.

Just my 2 cents,
fast70

Yeah, the site has been updated as they have a stroker crank at the same price as the 69mm.

I cant budge my budget (hey it rhymes) for a stroker... When i have the money later i want to build a type-4 or a wicked insane type-1 and that will likely be a stroker. Gotta remember im still in high school (last year... Hell yeah!) so i cant work as much as i want, to get the money i need for this addictnig lifestyle/hobby of Aircooled VW's

[Eurolook71]

Hmmm....you know....I knew a guy that bought a used motor and it lasted 3 years...it was a bone stock 1600, but 3 years is great for a used $300 turn-key!


Maybe this would be an option, while you wait to get what you REALLY want???

I'm only saying this cuz your going to want more power....I promise you will......

[super vw]

Originally Posted by Eurolook71

Hmmm....you know....I knew a guy that bought a used motor and it lasted 3 years...it was a bone stock 1600, but 3 years is great for a used $300 turn-key!


Maybe this would be an option, while you wait to get what you REALLY want???

I'm only saying this cuz your going to want more power....I promise you will......

Thats crap advice Eurolook! (im just playin BTW)
I need an engine soon, i want to have over 100hp... and i need it cheap.
AND where else am i going to get hands on experience building if i dont build this now ?

[Eurolook71]

I know, I'm in the same spot as you.....I've got a used case, but havent got it align-bored or tapped for F/F yet. I plan to build a 85.5X76. I bought OEM german 85.5s, and well, It seems as though CBP is making torque a little cheaper,(a welded 69 cost $150 on their site, so if a 76 is the same then thats where its at!!)....It just has to be done in the next few weeks, or I'll be riding my bike to school!

[fast70]

Build it now why you are in high school and still have the time and resources to do it. Without going with some form of stroker, which I think that 76mm is a good bet for you, you will be pushing it to break 100hp with a 69mm crank. Most HP figures you see for motors are flywheel horspower not wheel horsepower because wheel horsepower takes into account a 15% drivetrain loss. There are many strokers that are just getting to 130 HP.

Check out http://www.cal-look.com/tech/2007_vs_2165.shtml that should help you decide. And even he wasn't quite satisfied with the power so imagine how you will feel. Personally, the only way I would go under 2 liters is if it were turboed.

fast70

[Eurolook71]

The CBPerfromance site has the 76 crank for $350....and the 69 c/w is $150....am I missing something??

[fast70]

I just hope you don't beat yourself up later for not going stroker. Theres nothing like stroker and theres nothing like turbo, so I did both!

I origionally had a modest budget like yours, but I went ahead and splurged under the advice of my engine builder and had a complete turbo 2110 for $2000. I have not yet regreted this. It only took me one more paycheck, but it will supply me with much more fun. I was origionally going to go type 4 turbo, but my engine builder convinced me otherwise as just to build a motor of the same displacement cost much more and the horsepower just wouldn't be close to what I wanted (250-300hp). Although this newfound horsepower did force me to buy a new tranny just to be safe so that did tag on extra cost. However, by doing the work yourself of finding someone to help you out, you can build a performance motor for cheap without skimping on the parts.

fast70

[super vw]

Originally Posted by fast70

I just hope you don't beat yourself up later for not going stroker. Theres nothing like stroker and theres nothing like turbo, so I did both!

I origionally had a modest budget like yours, but I went ahead and splurged under the advice of my engine builder and had a complete turbo 2110 for $2000. I have not yet regreted this. It only took me one more paycheck, but it will supply me with much more fun. I was origionally going to go type 4 turbo, but my engine builder convinced me otherwise as just to build a motor of the same displacement cost much more and the horsepower just wouldn't be close to what I wanted (250-300hp). Although this newfound horsepower did force me to buy a new tranny just to be safe so that did tag on extra cost. However, by doing the work yourself of finding someone to help you out, you can build a performance motor for cheap without skimping on the parts.

fast70

Yeah i know i WILL want more power... but there is always other times to build biger and better things. for now a 1915 is good. i do have the rest of the car to restore to ya know :P.

My father works at the Porsche, VW, Audi and BMW dealership here in Bend, Oregon and there are a few VW geeks there (Aircooled yes) so i can get help from them... one of the guys was in Hot VW's for his drag car. and an other is building a 2000+cc stroker as we speak. he also built a 1776 that i got to ride in with... he builds nice motors, it had plenty of power for me. so a 1915 will be nice :P