An $8,000 Question

[Scotts73SB]

I highly recommend Calperformancelab!! I in fact own thier 2110 long block. Awesome guys and great parts and quality! I did alotta research before i got the 2110 they clearly came out on top as far as customer service and positive reviews.. other shops...search on STF for thier name and theres more complaints than good write ups. Nothing but positive for calperformancelab. Any questions you have about them ask me. Id be happy to tell you my experience.

[NO_H2O]

Having just built my 1st type 4, I can say that I think I am done with Type 1's. I would go with the 2056 T4. They are far better built than the Type 1. 5 bolt flywheel to crank vs 1 gland nut and 4 pins, thru bolts vs studs for case/bearing torque, spin on filter stock vs pick-up screen only stock, 94 mm cylinders stock vs 85.5, more cooling fin area than a type 1, Better torque curve, longer lasting, cooler temps, etc, etc. The more you look, the more you like.

[oasis]

I selected $8,000 for this thread for two reasons.

First, another thread was bouncing all over the place depending on the importance of cost in the project. This price point is somewhat in the middle of what the budget may be when the time comes.

Second, it is a price point that is difficult for a fully built Type 4 including exhaust. Below are some sample quotes from Shop Talk Forums:

Originally Posted by TOPGUN63

Jake, How much is a 2270 going for now a days?

Originally Posted by MASSIVE TYPE IV

Most sell between 8-10K and up to 13.5 with developments and EFI..

Now I realize the question was about a 2270 while NO_H20's suggestion is a 2056. But, from a different STF's thread ...

Originally Posted by MASSIVE TYPE IV

The 2016 MAY be a possibility as a full build- but it'll cost just as much labor as a 2270 that makes 40HP more... They take the same amount of my time.

This is not an empty exercize on my part. I enjoy all of the suggestions. I have learned a lot from the above and combined with what I have been learning including from Dyno Day recently, the right decision for me is becoming clear.

At the same time, I don't want to call Jake or any of the suggested Type 1 builders until I know exactly where I stand financially. There was conjecture on other threads on this and other forums that similar displacement Type 1 and Type 4 engines would cost similarly to each other. It seems this myth is now busted.

If my budget becomes $6,000 or $10,000, I think I have a grasp on what I would do. The $8,000 budget seems to be difficult for a correctly built Type 4 and more than enough for a correctly built Type 1.

Above all, it seems I will have nice options regardless of my future budget. Thanks to all who responded. It has been great for me.

[NO_H2O]

The Type 4 will last far longer than the Type 1.

[Eurolook71]

Wow, I guess I just had my own reality check that came with this post. I've always dreamed of a T4 motor, 1911 or 2056, yet with EFI. 13K for a 2270? !@#$%! DUDE! I think everything that goes on over there in GA is awesome, and the R&D dept is far more than anyone could expect when the subject of air-cooled flat-four motors comes up. But too spend 8K on a N/A 2L and still have only 4 gears just makes me wanna put the whole idea of "massive" far behind me, leaving tear drop stain on the ground all along the way. Unless I'm just being typical. I mean honestly, I've only really seen one "built" T4 in action, and it was for 12+ seconds. If 8K makes my bug go for 10+ years w/ regular maintence and still gets the tuner crowd to say "holy crap it's air-cooled..." then I guess I'll just shut my trap, that is until I can experience for myself this T4 revolution.....damnit here comes that $$$ thing again....grrrrr

[Massive Type IV]

do the math on building a TF-1 cased engine, using a flanged TI crank (Not chinese made) and all the things needed to create a TI even similarly comparative to the TIV. You will see that it'll take all aftermarket parts to make it happen and the cost will be within 10% of the cost of a TIV. In fact that TIV may be cheaper.

[oicdn]

Then, how are all these companies offering a 2L+ for $5K WITH trannies, etc...if all you get with a TIV is a small 2L, and no tranny?

Not knocking the TIV, but like stated, that cost factor seems to be pretty deterring. My buddy spent $5K on his 1914 set-up including Pro-Street tranny and 2500lb clutch. He was saying he coulda done a 2332 for the same price, but he bought the 1914 before he really knew anything and thought 1914 was the "largest streetable/reliable" motor you could get. He never adjusted his valves, and just done regular oil changes...it was his daily grind too....

$13K for a 2L TIV or $5K and get a tranny that has been abused, raced, in traffic and has around 45K+ miles thus far of just oil changes...that route, seems like the obvious logical choice.

[Superbug Scott]

"My stock engine gives me max torque at low RPM's and has a nice flat torque curve throughout the powerband. I like that. I just want more power. I want a trouble-free engine with regular maintenance. I want durability."

Wow 5 pages-and I read each post. I want the same thing as oasis. No race car, a daily driver with a little more. I think the answers depend on how much more power do you want. I'm sort of thinking going to a 1776 or maybe 1800 something, duel carb, upgraded exhaust and call it a day. Stay stock transmission, same case. Even without doing any work myself, well under $8000, you think?

I've installed almost everything Topline sells and 17" Porsche wheels.

[speedy]

well after 5 pages of enjoyable reading i thought i would chuck in my thoughts ,but just to clear up , im no engine guru .
1, for a daily driver 130-150 bhp is more than adequate t1,will do this cheaper but t4 ultimatly will give better service (both if serviced correctly will give many years of service )
2, if like me you enjoy adding to the performance of your car in a winter strip down and it does not have to be a daily driver then maybe t1 is the way to go, there are many more performance parts available at reasonable money.
3 if you want big power 250-400bhp t1 or t4 ,here is no cheap way of doing this you have to have deeeep pockets although t1 would be thew cheaper option
i suppose it depends on what you want the car for, i know i have gone off track a little but there you go
cheers jon

[oasis]

Originally Posted by Superbug Scott

I'm sort of thinking going to a 1776 ..., duel carb, upgraded exhaust and call it a day. Stay stock transmission, same case. Even without doing any work myself, well under $8000, you think?

Oh, no doubt. I've driven a 1776 before and was ready to buy a Type 34 with one until the seller backed out. It is definitely peppier ... peppyer ... more peppy ... uh, has more pep than the rocko stocko. Plus, I have not heard one person ever give a bad review to a well constructed 1776.

If I had a garage, my first endeavor would have been to rebuild a 1600. If that went well and I felt confident with what I had learned, a 1776 would probably have been Project Two for my learning curve. This is still my plan should we ever move -- it just won't include my current Super.

Since my Super is a co-daily driver and my first modified car, I am reaching for a little more greed in the pep department. A 1776 is plenty to do 70 MPH all day long. It is just that doing 70 on the interstates from New York to Florida -- my domain -- isn't necessarily plenty.

When the time comes, I need to decide how much money I can devote to the project which will be further complicated by the selling of our Westy and the purchasing of a car (Scirocco, maybe?) for our daughter. The $8k was a guesstimate. If the sell/buy goes well and the stocker continues to perform reliably, I may delay the $8k decision until it becomes a $11k certainty. All of this has to be decided within the confines my head.

speedy's point number two is enviable. Maybe some day with some future Super or other air-cooled ... As for 250-plus horsepower, I'm afraid that might be too much for me in a bug. Maybe, my Cabrio would like that instead.