Ethanol in a VW motor

[vwdmc16]

yeah i like the mounting, it's cool, but accessing it could be a little harder than a turbo undre the apron, but i guess you would'nt need to do much maintance on it, although i don't mind crawling under the car

So i looked up how hard it would be to get/make 180-190 proof fuel, and it would take a $400-500 still and alot of work to constanley make enough fuel, not to mention getting a permit and all that. sso what kinda power do you see possible woth E85 vs. pure alcohol, becuase that would be much easier to get although not cheaper in the long run.

[1500SBR]

Cam, I don't think you can fit the turbo under the rear tin, without removing it. If the turbo sits too low, you will need a scavenging tank for the oil return line (which has no pressure) and a scavenging pump. For the gravity to take care of the return line, the lowest part turbo has to be mounted above the oil level inside the pump otherwise it smokes under certain situations if not all the time.

VWDMC, I can't give you exact figures since we do not have E85, but from mixing regular Gas and Alcohol, which some people do, the results will probably be the same in terms of power. Less forgiving when it comes to ignition timing and a bit hotter, but nothing too significant. I wasn't suggesting you guys went after pure alcohol of methanol for this use. I was suggesting the use of E85 to begin with. I think it will probably even work better than Brazilian Hidrated alcohol, since water doesn't burn, it simply takes space in the combustion chamber. Gas on the other hand burns hotter than alcohol so a bit combined with alcohol must make a pretty good fuel. Without the hard start and with slight less specific consumption.

Regards,
Marcelo

[PJLOval]

Wow did this thread ever get hijacked! Yes you can run e-85 in a relatively stock bug engine. Replace all of the fuel lines and clean the tank real good. You will then have to Jet the carb(s) about 33 to 35% richer and reset the floats to accomadate the diference in fuel density. E-85 is about 105 Octaine. The timing needs to be advanced as well. More compression wouldn't hurt if you want to build an engine to use it. The only problem we have here in Texas is that e-85 still cost too much and the 33% loss in MPG doesn't justify the 18% decrease from Super Unleaded.

[1500SBR]

PjlOval, What do you mean by highjacked? in the beggining we talked about being no advantages to using E85 unless you build a high compression engine for it or it is turbocharged. From my experience 35% richening is too much even for pure alcoohol, so with e85 it is way too rich. THere is also the corrosion issue (it is bad). How much does a gallon of E85 cost? Here a gallon of gasoline is US$4,18 and a gallon of alcoohol is US$2,09. It is not that more compression wouldn't hurt, it is needed. Timming is only advanced if you do not have the compression....a correct alcohol engine requires different timming from a gas engine, not simply more...the curve is different.
Differences sum up as: corrosion on all parts in contact with fuel...tank, pump, lines, and specially the carbs. Different jets, e-tubes, float needles. Different timing. Higher compression ratio. Some manufactures change cam profile (because the car behaves differently and they want to fix that - I'm ot suggesting you have to swap cams, I'm illustrating how different it is). Smaller venturis. No polishing of manifolds and heads or rather a different finish then the one you are used to. cold start system required depending on weather....

[matara]

1500SBR, Your turbo setup sounds similar to my setup. I have a kit that a respected Australian VW mechanic setup that mounts the turbo on the passenger (RHD) side of the gearbox. The intercooler sits the other side, and feeds back to a Weber 32/34 DMTT carb setup for blow-through. The turbo gets its oil from the pressure switch via a T, and the return goes back to the passenger side Valve cover. The kit has a distributor that limits advance travel, and it is setup to work with a basically stock motor. Stock heads, stock crank, you just put a rising rate regulator, fuel pump, and bigger Pistons and Barrells and drop compression etc, and it is designed to only rev to 4500 rpm. This setup was driven 600 miles to a run, did a pass of a 14.2 secs with an 1835 setup, and drove the 600 miles back home.

Here is a pic of the headers and the setup as seen in the engine bay.





Interestingly, petrol manufacturers over in Australia, are now blending ethanol into petrol between 10% and 30%.

Good to see that the kit has some proven heritage.

Cheers

Steve

[1500SBR]

Hey Steve,

Awesome..14s reving 4500, that is really cool. I really like your setup, it is so clean and the single dual throat carb eliminates some of the duals hassles...

I guess ethanol will slowly replace gasoline...and that is a good thing. being forgiving with turbos, I also guess that is the future of internal combustion engines....good for us!

Regards,

Marcelo

[EvilAngel]

Hi guys, regarding cam's post about turbo under the rear tin, cb's got a turbo kit that actually does that. I dont know about the exact install details, but you can check that out, too.