Ultimate Porsche Brake Upgrade

[kleinporsche]

I don't want to het between you to but there seems to be miscomprehension somewhere. It looks like a personnal affair. You can both have 2 differant opinions and we all need to respect that. Typ Vier, I understand your point in terms of possibilities: yes the biggest calipers you can fit on a bug is the 6 pot cayenne S , or 6 pot from the carrera GT for that matter! But as you said it your self, no bugs need that much braking. And here comes Wally's argument: we don't need the extra weight of the extra pistons and the weight of the extra disc size. Plus, I imagine it is a hell to set up to avoid locking up the brakes. Wally's argument is directed toward compromise (balance) between weigth and performance: I you put too much in the performance part of the equation, you hurt the overall car performance.

For example, I've seen a tv program a while ago on car tuning in general. What ingeneers recommand in terms of wheels is never go over +2 in terms of wheel diameter. For the bug: stock is 15" so max should be 17". Afterward, it is too heavy for nothing and you start having a hardtime cornering. They did a timed slalom course: stock, +2 upgrade and +3. The car with +2 did a better time than stock, but the car with +3 upgrade did worst than stock!!!

Sometimes bigger is not better...

[Bebobug]

Originally Posted by kleinporsche

Sometimes bigger is not better...

So, very, very true. Without DSC & ABS having 6 pot calipers & 12" rotors will lockup prematurely & become dangerous to use on the street. But, if you use heavier rims this will help counteract this by making the brakes work more. The side effect to all of this would be poor handling characteristics due to the tremendous amount of unsprung weight but, for a show car this wouldn't ever be tested anyway. So, it is your choice of what you want to run and if it doesn't work, my car still runs

[Typ Vier]

No problem with your statements, however the weight of the 996 GT3 brake is roughly about the same as the 993 biturbo brake or the one you refer to as big reds. The big reds are widely used in all types of beetles and is accepted as a useful system. One of my friends has the 993 turbo brake fitted to an 57 oval. This setup was fitted in 1997 by Eduard Remmelle and works very nice. While we`re at it, Eduard build a street/race car not that long ago with AP 6 piston brakes and 350 mm discs and no one seemed to question the size of the brakes or the added unsprung weight then

Anyway,the weight of the 993 351 045.10 disc is 9.2 kg and the diameter is 322mm.
The weight of the 996 351 401 9H disc is 9.5 kg and the diameter is 350mm.
The weight gain is only 300 grams per disc and although the disc is bigger in diameter, a new production process kept the weight down.

The weight of the 993 351 425.10 4 piston turbo caliper is about the same as the 996 351 431 91 as the manufacturing process has changed too. 993 calipers are more solid and use aluminium pistons whereas the 996 6piston caliper is built to save weight for the size unlike for instance the solidly cast cayenne 4WD caliper.
The housing is shaped around the pistons which are made of synthetic material similar to teflon to save weight again.

Setting up a brake system like this is not an easy task and will take a bit of dedication.
I have access to brake pressure gauges VAG 1347 x4 (take actual brake pressure reading straight off the bleed nipples)to determine which wheel will lock up at which brake pressure, a rolling road and can refer to close friends working in the brake development department at ATE in Frankfurt.
The correct master cylinder and brake proportioning valves have yet to be determined.
Again, every brake upgrade will add unsprung weight, and the 996 GT3 bake is definately overkill in a beetle, but it will not add a lot more unsprung weight than a 993 turbo brake.
I always preferred this forum to others as the statements and knowledge shared was mostly top notch and guessed anwers were clearly identified.
Other peoples comments were discussed witout trying to ridicule them.
After all, we share the same hobby don`t we ?

For just plain stupidly large brakes the ultimate would have to be the Brembo Gran turismo kits for various Porsches. 8piston front calipers, on 380mm rotors, and 4piston rears, with 355mm rotors.

[turboL]

Im running Boxter S discs and red 4 pot brembos alloy adapter brackets alloy porsche hubs and 18 by 7.5inch fve spoke Porsche rims low profile tyres, I weighed all this and compared it to the same stock components and was suprised to finde the porch set up was not that much heavier so I was happy to sacrifice some handeling for the extra brake capacity and safety .Some people say they are over kill,too heavey blah blah and in some applications Id agree and for the size of the car they are extreme but if any part of my car is gonna be over kill its gonna have to be the brakes!Doesnt matter how fast your car goes if you cook your brakes and end up splattered!We arnt formula 1 racing here guys 3 pot 4 pot 6 pot what ever works for you,I finde it hard to believe that you would need 6 pot and the discs are like fly wheels.4 fly wheels they must be sucking up alot of HP even on a heavey 500hp bug they seem over the top! I mean if you can afford 6 pots with ceramic discs go buy a Porsche! I was lucky and got my callipers with the half finished project I bought so I used em but it was a big job maken them fit. Remmele seem to be the leaders in racing car style components and they do 4 and 6 pot so they must work, so I guess you gotta go with what works best for your application . Big is better but there is apoint where its gonna start to work aggainst you not to mention cost you a small fortune

[Panelfantastic]

I have got to learn to work this edit function...
Anyway, I agree with what was said above about using too much brake

All that being said, I LOVE the big brakes and plan them for my next project!


Jeff-

[speedy]

hello , just to add to this , i have 996 monoblocks on my car and love the look of them ,but to be honest unless i start using the car on track days they are total overkill ,under medium hard braking i have to be carefull not to lock up ,in the wet it can be a nightmare,easy to lock up all 4 ,i am never going to suffer brake fade with just the bug's weight so dont need all that pad area having said that they look wicked and everytime i look at them i get the sense of achivement having fabricated and fitted them myself shallow i know but what the hell