choosing roll cages

[oasis]

I read and appreciated all of the responses. I will reread them several times when I get home. One alarming quote I have listed below.

Originally Posted by Kafer_Mike

Be careful running a rollcage on the street. They can be more dangerous than running without due to the increased risk of head injuries -- especially for rear passengers. They're really meant for applications where you should be wearing a helmet...

I'm not worried about the rear passengers as the next 1302/1303 will not have a rear seat as it nears completion. (We may adopt a dog, but that's another story for another time.)

I am very sure I won't be racing. I was interested in a roll cage for protection. If it offered more rigidity, too, so much the better. However, I am not planning on wearing a helmet when jamming to the beach or the local grocer.

[owdlvr]

Originally Posted by oasis

I am very sure I won't be racing. I was interested in a roll cage for protection. If it offered more rigidity, too, so much the better. However, I am not planning on wearing a helmet when jamming to the beach or the local grocer.

If you're that concerned about protection, you honestly shouldn't be driving a beetle. A roll cage in a standard road-going vehicle is going to protect you in some instances, but provide far more of a risk in others. Will you be investing in proper SFI roll bar padding, or doing what most non-racers do and use pipe insulation?

In an accident you would be shocked to see how much your body flexes and moves, a standard road-going car with cage and without helmet is far more dangerous then a simple car without cage. Your head off the roll bar is a seriously tough object to avoid. The cage will be of benefit in some accidents where you might otherwise be killed, but a liability in any lower-speed accident where you are unlikely to be killed.

I ran my Audi rally car as a street car, with cage and proper padding, for years...and I can tell you that driving a caged car daily is a complete pain-in-the-ass. **assuming we're talking "cage" here and not just a rear-seat roll bar.

-Dave

[evilC]

Originally Posted by owdlvr

If you're that concerned about protection, you honestly shouldn't be driving a beetle. A roll cage in a standard road-going vehicle is going to protect you in some instances, but provide far more of a risk in others. Will you be investing in proper SFI roll bar padding, or doing what most non-racers do and use pipe insulation?

In an accident you would be shocked to see how much your body flexes and moves, a standard road-going car with cage and without helmet is far more dangerous then a simple car without cage. Your head off the roll bar is a seriously tough object to avoid. The cage will be of benefit in some accidents where you might otherwise be killed, but a liability in any lower-speed accident where you are unlikely to be killed.

I ran my Audi rally car as a street car, with cage and proper padding, for years...and I can tell you that driving a caged car daily is a complete pain-in-the-ass. **assuming we're talking "cage" here and not just a rear-seat roll bar.

-Dave

I concur with everthing you say but there are some plus points:
1) A cage can give psychological comfort so the driver is more relaxed and therefore more responsive.
2) A cage will stiffen the bodyshell/chassis so that its response is more accurate and reliable resulting in better active protection. (less likely to get into an accident in the first place)
3) On a beetle there are no crumple zones or a stiff passenger cell to protect the passengers so a cage within the cabin at least provides a stiffer passenger cell.
4) Extending the cage forward to the front suspension area will improve chassis stiffness as well as giving the opportunity to add progressive collapse thus bringing the vehicle up towards modern standards.

The effectiveness of a cage was brought home to me some years ago during our clubs national level road rally. One of the front running Escorts was pulled off a narrow tarmac single track road by the muddy goo at the edge of the verge and then ploughed through a 18" thick brick buttress to a barn. It was almost a grotesque cartoon as the Escort shape was bitten out of the solid raking buttress. The front 1/4 of the car ended up at the dashboard, where it was stopped by the cage. The driver sustained a broken ankle only (the navigator was only shaken and stirred). This all happened at between 100 - 110mph as it was a flat out section with few bends in the preceeding 2 miles. The cage demonstrated its strength on that occasion.

Our MSA (Motor Sports Association - the governing body) recommend cages for road rallying even though helmets are not allowed. They don't insist on cages as the events are only supposed to be 'navigational' and standard road cars are encouraged; the sight of drivers and navigators wearing helmets on public roads would also incense the public.

Clive

[Wally]

Originally Posted by evilC

the sight of drivers and navigators wearing helmets on public roads would also incense the public.

Clive

Yeah, by all means, lets not incense the public with our cars (I just learned a new word in english!, tnx Clive )

I am actually contemplating a cage as wel. I don't like them, but kinda have to...
I use the car mostly for circuit-like driving, not competitively, so no rules there, but need the official approval for when I participate in drag racing, where cage rules ARE mandatory. Only if you run faster than 12 seconds though, but I am afraid that will happen coming year.

So, would a FIA approved cage be good/legal(NHRA) for a <12 second car in drag racing?

[Humble]

I think every fia or scca cage is overkill by nhra/drag standards. I do highly recommends getting a professionally built cage for street cars though. It will look tons better and the tight fit will blend in with the interior easier.

[Wally]

Thanks, it will probably be a Heigo 'bolt-in' cage then, which fit very nice/tight from what I've seen.

[owdlvr]

Originally Posted by Wally

Thanks, it will probably be a Heigo 'bolt-in' cage then, which fit very nice/tight from what I've seen.

From what I can understand on the site, they look like a good design. Interesting to see they offer aluminum cages...show only I hope!

-Dave