Bugged Build Thread

[Bugged]

Hey Guys,

I'm looking at gauges right now... I really like these, what do you think? I am still looking around but I will likely have a similar set up as I do not have a dash.



Should I go all mechanical gages? What is the benefit of electric? Will the electric sending units even work with our cars? I was thinking of wiring a microprocessor (Arduino) into one of the terminal blocks of the Watson Wiring kit i was going to use. This way I could use one terminal to power an assortment of switches, power electric gauges, LED lighting, and any other cool project I can think of.

Any input? The VDO gauges aren't doing it for me... Except for those damn North Hollywood Gauges! Hot damn those Red GT3 RS gauges are the sexiest thing I have ever seen.

[NO_H2O]

Autometer makes nice stuff. They have a good selection of senders except for CHT (the last time I looked). You can use a Westach CHT gauge and sender and paint the rim with aluminum paint and it will blend in.
Be sure to look at Westach gauges. I love their dual and quad gauges for saving space.

[Bugged]

Do I need to run a CHT on each cylinder? If I just wanted to run a dual CHT gauge, which cylinders would I put the sensors on? Was it Cylinder #3 that runs the hottest? Should I put the sensors on #3 and #4 so I can see the delta between those two? This concerns me because then I have no information about the right side of the engine... Those quad CHT sensors are expensivo!

[Bugged]

So I am currently not going Fuel injected, but it is a long term goal. (Turbo FI) I'm assuming that the programmable dashes are not compatible without an ECU.

[Humble]

It depends on the dash, some can use external sensors, and some only poll the ecu over serial/can bus. Typically, logging capable dashes will take external sensors, or have an additional box that does. Either way, a logger is nice to have regardless of setup, but usually adds 50% to the cost.

[NO_H2O]

I am running a DTM shroud and have a CHT gauge for #1 and #3.

[Bugged]

I am pretty sure I will get these seats, Sparco Sprint 5. They are narrow enough to fit in the bug without looking awkward in my opinion. FIA approved and have the submarine hole for the 5th belt.



What is your opinion. 4 or 5 point seat belts? Any sanctioned race will require 5 point, but is it overkill for me? I will be doing track days, but doubt I will be doing full fledged races. That being said, the safer the better. My worry is if they will be a pain to put on and off, but I have heard 4 point are more of a PITA than 5.

[Bug@5speed(US)]

For any track event 5 or 6 point best. Antisubmarine very important feature that 4 point can't provide.

Not that inconvenient to take on and off with practice.
Alex

[spannermanager]

Originally Posted by Bug@5speed(US)

For any track event 5 or 6 point best. Antisubmarine very important feature that 4 point can't provide.

Not that inconvenient to take on and off with practice.
Alex

This ^^^^^ and another weight saving opportunity here also with an ultralight pro harness, these and the digi dash and thin wall wiring can save well over 3 kg. the budget steel harness fittings start to nag on you if your in the car for an hour or more, i seem to remember posting one that weighed in at 3.5 kg

[Humble]

Actually, one of the biggest arguments for a digital dash is not weight but information. You layout different "pages" on the dash and each one can report different info. It also saves time looking around at a dozen gauges for 15 seconds while you're on a straight.

As for belts, Alex is right, you want at least a 5-point, and preferably a cam lock. If you've ever put on a 4-point belt and cinched it up wrong, it'll creep up your stomach. Submarining under the belt is the same thing but happens much faster during an accident and the 5th point prevents that. I've also had to spend, probably hours now, explaining to passengers how a latch link belt works and how to put one on. It's worth the extra money for a cam lock to never go through that, coincidentally, I'm also switching to cam locks


As a rule of thumb, you can never be too safe. Consider this, a $600 seat, $300 belt, $900 fire suppression system, $800 fuel cell, $1200 roll cage, $1500 fire suit, $400 helmet, etc., seem like big purchases up front, but they can prevent tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in hospital bills after an accident. So when you look at safety items, your foremost question should be, "How much am I worth?"


For the relay, most automotive relays will take 12v for the coil circuit. so the starter relay would look like this

T85: ground
T86: +12v from start button
T87: to starter
T30: +12v in

This is for 4 terminal relays, if there is a fifth one (87a), don't use it. Terminal 87a is a passthrough power until relay is activated then 87a goes to 0v and 87 goes to 12v.

[Bugged]

I feel like I'm turning this build into a random questionaire... haha. Anyway, I am looking to install a push start ignition in the car. I think I understand how to wire one up with a relay, but I found this diagram.



Doesn't the Engine Start button side of the relay need a low current power supply in order to actuate the relay when the momentary switch (start button) is closed? Once the relay closes, then the circuit to the "starter wire" (which would be to the + side of the coil), would close and actuate the starter?

[owdlvr]

So here's my thoughts on your questions...

Sparco Sprint - Sparco Sprint seats are a made with a steel tube-frame construction. While FIA certified, and safer then a non-certified seat, you should consider the use of the vehicle before buying them. If there is a significant chance of serious accident in the car (track racing, stage rally, etc.) then I would pass on the Sprints and find a composite construction seat. You want to avoid a situation where the seat frame could distort or break and injure it's occupant. In the case of rally-cross or autocross (where accidents which damage the passenger compartment are far less likely) a Sprint would be a fine choice.

4pt belts - Avoid these like plague. As already stated, it's pretty challenging to do these up properly without the buckle rising up into your abdomen. An accident (even minor) could cause you great internal damage. Go with 5pts or 6pts, and always run the submarine belt...even to the corner store.

Push Button Start - I would encourage you to consider why you want a push button start with the ignition key still in use. Keeping the stock ignition cylinder intact simplifies the wiring, and keeps the theft protection functional. Adding a push-button in addition to the key adds three additional points of failure (button, relay and wiring) any of which could disable your car mid-competition. I would suggest you either a) ditch the ignition switch entirely (I can give you wiring diagram) or b) forget the push button.

Digital Dash - Not really a question, but I figured I should jump in on the conversation. The biggest advantage to a programmable dash is that you program the display to only show information if there is a problem. It could show oil temp until it reaches operating temperature (for instance) and then never show oil temperature again unless it gets too high...then it should flash or otherwise attract the driver's attention. If someone is using traditional gauges, simply twist each gauge so "normal" operating condition is with the needle straight up and down. Your brain no longer needs to "read" gauges. You simply glance over for a millisecond and look back forward. Your brain processes whether or not all needles were "straight up", and only if they weren't do you need to take the time/brain power to look and read the problem gauge.

-Dave

[Bogara_ZO]

Sorry for hijacking, but can you tell me please where the submarine belt should be attached (what is the best angle?)? Slots in the seat are required in this case?

[owdlvr]

Harness mounting is fairly specific, best to read the instructions that are for the actual belt you're installing. But for general information, the Schroth book is pretty good. Regardless, seats require a proper anti-submarine slot. It's very dangerous to use a seat that doesn't have a slot. https://www.tillett.co.uk/shop/docum...ation-2012.pdf

5pt belts are typically done with the anti-submarine strap following the chest-torso line and then mounted between that line dropped down to the floor, or 20deg forward.


6pt belts are either run through anti-submarine straps, through the side slots and you sit on the anti-submarine belts, or under a thin panel in the seat. The mounting point is quite specific to the belt you're using.

-Dave

[Bogara_ZO]

Thanks for the info Dave!
One more, if there is no cage in the bug where would you mount the shoulder belts? The original fixing point behind the rear seat is too low?